What guauge should I use for a 4 string bass tuned down a whole step


The Player's Lounge
All Forums      Members   Calendar   Who's On
Welcome Guest ( Login | Register )
      


««12

What guauge should I use for a 4 string bass...Expand / Collapse
Author
Message
Posted 6/15/2006 3:01 PM
Forum Newbie

Forum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum Newbie

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 6/15/2006 3:01 PM
Posts: 4, Visits: 1

So any suggestions on a gauge?  Or maybe help in interpreting the string tension chart?

 

Post #27248
Posted 6/16/2006 7:07 AM
Forum Newbie

Forum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum Newbie

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 6/22/2006 10:25 AM
Posts: 9, Visits: 1
I think it's either Ernie Ball Slinky's or GHS have a 4-string pack that has a 110 or maybe even a 115 as the E. It's pretty heavy for a 4-string set. Sorry For the hi-jack.

Nonetheless, I want to retract, re-phrase, and re-submit my earlier comment. I realized on the way home last night what I had said wrong.

I do angree with rodeostu in saying that the difference between a 4-string P-bass and a 5-string P-bass is literaly just neck size and maybe some pickup setups. That's just because it was originally designed as a 4-string and had a 5-string hybrid type of setup to make it a full fledged 5-string. So is that the same? Yes.

HOWEVER, the point I was trying to make and obviously didn't make it specific enough is that the bass that I currently play (in my sig below) was only ever pre-conceived, created, and produced to be a 5-string model. 4-string was never and option at the time of buying. So I believe (and I can feel it) that when you crank on the B-string on MY 5-string, you can feel wayyyyyy more vibrations transmitted through the body into my chest than you could with a strictly down-tuned 4-string regardless of string gauge size and everything else combined. This test is done unplugged. Now on top of that, I will admit that if I put my 5-string up against a P-bass in a 5-string combination, the same would still take place.
I realize why you were challenging me so much on it. A typical Fender has no real difference between 4-5 string models, but my bass was only ever conceived in the 5-string combination.



Lakland Skyline 55-02
Post #27250
Posted 7/4/2006 6:44 AM
Forum Newbie

Forum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum Newbie

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 7/4/2006 5:31 AM
Posts: 1, Visits: 1

Hi man

Tuning down to D is perfectly possible on a 34" scale bass, but you need to up your string gauges. The trick is to match the tensions as closely as possible to the tensions of your preferred set in standard tuning.

Let's suppose you're using a regular 45-105 set, like the D'Addario EXL165 set, which gives you 105/85/65/45 gauges low to high. Looking at the chart for D'Addario XL's, find the row for each string gauge in turn and read off the tension at the normal pitch. In normal tuning, the tensions are as follows (in lbs):

E  - 105, tension 40.3

A  - 85, tension 48.4

D  - 65, tension 51.3

G  - 45, tension 42.8

Because you're tuning down, you're losing tension on each string. This changes the feel and risks the string becoming too 'sloppy' (a lot of this depends on how hard or soft you pick - it's a personal thing how much tension you like to feel). Lower tension usually also means duller tone, intonation problems (it's easier to push or pull the string out of tune) and more rattles and buzzes. At your new low tuning, you'll need to increase tension back up to something near the original tensions to keep roughly the same feel and tone. You do this by picking heavier gauges of string.

Looking at the chart, find the row for each string in the standard set and follow it across until you reach the new note you intend to tune to. Then follow that column down until you reach a figure that is as close as possible to the original figure. Then look back across to the left to find the new string size. Tuning down only a whole step, this is going to be one, or at most two gauges heavier than the original string.

If we do this for the standard 45-105 set, we find as follows:

E down to D - 120, tension 40.3 (compare 40.3 for 105/E)

A down to G - 95, tension 48.7 (compare 48.4 for as 85/A)

D down to C - 70, tension 47.7, or 75, tension 53.7 (compare 51.3 for 65/D)

G down to F - 50, tension 42.4 (compare 42.8 for 45/G)

This gives a custom set of 120/95/70 or 75/50 for your downtuned bass.

In fact, I use a 'heavy' 50/70/90/110 set of Elites Stadium Stainless on one 34"-scale bass in standard E tuning, and as an experiment I tuned it down to D. The string tensions seemed fine, so you may not have to go to 120/95/70/50. If you want to try different gauges for feel, buy individual strings and experiment. Try to keep the tensions in the ballpark indicated by the chart, using the standard set as a guide. If you want to try a set, have a look at D'Addarios' EXL230 long scale set, which gives you 110/90/75/55 with a low of 36.7 lbs and a high of 50.0 lbs when tuned to D.

If you're careful to match the new tensions in D to the tensions of your existing set in E I don't think you should have any problems, but you may find you have to adjust the truss rod and string heights slightly. If you don't know how to do this yourself, get someone who does to do it for you. The adjustments will be small.

Obviously, the 34" instrument was not designed to be tuned to D, so it will always be a bit of a compromise, but it's not like trying to tune a 4-string down to low B. In future, if you want to tune down to D but still play a 4-string you might want to look at a 35"-scale instrument. The longer scale gives you more tension for the same gauges, so you might not even have to increase the standard gauges if you're only tuning down a whole step.

All the best

Paul B.

Post #27373
Posted 7/7/2006 11:30 AM
Supreme Being

Supreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme Being

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 11/22/2006 8:40 PM
Posts: 127, Visits: 2

There are a couple of things you can try. Remember though that strings are designed to play at pitch so de-tuning is not the smartest thing to do. I'm not a fan of drop tuning but I am a bass player so here's some thoughts.

If you play alot in dropped tuning seriously try a 5 string bass. Strings can be tuned normal and you can still play low. If need be (and this is unconventional) you can find a strong capo and put it on at the 3rd fret. Now what you have is a 4 string with a high 5th string.

Treat the B string as your E string (which is now tuned down to open D) and so on up the fretboard.

You can always take the capo off in a pinch and go "regular."

-----or------

In general a 35" or 36" scale bass can be tuned down better than a standard 34" scale. (That's why some makers of 5 strings use a longer scale because it exerts more tension on the B string making it less floppy.) So you can look for a 4 string with a longer scale. Expect a little more tension in the upper frets if you go this route.

-----or-------

Check around, do some research. I know Everly  makes some guitar strings that are specifically designed for drop tuning. Check and see if they make a bass set for drop tuning (or if they ever plan to) Check with other makers too for suggestions.

-----or------

If worst comes to worst get a really tense set of strings, tune down, but have the bass neck, bridge, and intonation set up as close as possible for that type of tuning.

Have fun and don't be afraid to be creative / inventive in seeking solutions.

Post #27418
Posted 7/17/2007 11:36 AM


Supreme Being

Supreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme Being

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 1/3/2008 4:53 PM
Posts: 167, Visits: 174
55-110's.

God wants spiritual fruit, not religous nuts!
Post #32647
« Prev Topic | Next Topic »

««12







Reading This TopicExpand / Collapse
Active Users: 1 (1 guest, 0 members, 0 anonymous members)
No members currently viewing this topic.
Forum Moderators: Administrator, Inst500, Rico Admin 2, Julian Benjamin

PermissionsExpand / Collapse

All times are GMT -4:00, Time now is 8:35pm

Powered By InstantForum.NET v4.1.4 © 2009
Execution: 3.750. 10 queries. Compression Enabled.