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RE: Expelled

ET — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:18:53 GMT

I believe you're right O-lugs and will take your advice and never watch it.

RE: Expelled

O-Lugs — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 03:12:16 GMT

ET,

Mel Gibson is just plain f-ed up! He has some sort of weird torture fetish and he takes HIMSELF more seriously than he should. The Passion sucked, plain and simple. It was a torture movie. All the money was spent on effects of flesh being torn and...well, just different kinds of tortures, one after the other. It's a strange thing to think about the story of Jesus (whether or not it's true) and then see a visual depiction of only the most perverse aspects of human creativity applied to killing him off -for nearly 3 hours, (I think). For me, after about the first few beatings, it just stops being gut-wrenching and enters into the realm of repulsive film making. I honestly believe that Gibson did it just to "pick a fight" with anyone he could stir up...and apparently, quite a few people got stirred up. But, the film is just outright BAD. You're absolutely right...DON'T waste your time.

RE: Expelled

Ivan P. — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:13:52 GMT

we sure have a lot of religious debates here!

RE: Expelled

ET — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:13:05 GMT

[quote][b]Krispy Kirk (4/21/2008)[/b][hr]So ET, have you seen "Expelled" yet? If so, how was it?

Alas, Ben Stein's little filmis getting slammed by the critics...and I do mean slammed.[/quote]

Nope. I haven't seen it yet and I don't intend to. Maybe I will see it when it comes out on dvd and is cheap ;).

Though I know Expelled is not a "Christian" movie, I'm almost always very dissapointed when I see some movie or documentary that supposedly expresses my own similar views. I"m not surprised it is getting bad reviews. It very well may be a bad movie. But, maybe it isn't as bad as they make it out to be.

I never watched Gibson's "The Passion" and probably never will. Even though so many Christians were promoting and ranting and raving about it, I found all sorts of errors in the film and additions to the Scriptures, while also promoting a Roman Catholic bias, and I found this all out without ever seeing the film. A lot of satanic people loved that film too, because it shows Jesus getting bludgeoned and tortured and they got off on that.

RE: Expelled

Krispy Kirk — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:29:26 GMT

So ET, have you seen "Expelled" yet? If so, how was it?

Alas, Ben Stein's little film is getting slammed by the critics...and I do mean slammed.

RE: Expelled

ET — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:24:02 GMT

[quote][b]Krispy Kirk (4/10/2008)[/b][hr]OK, in all fairness, I didn't read every single page of every single one of those sites I referenced. Apparently ET, you did!

The quote you're asking about is silly. There's no other word for it. Since my point was to show equivalency between the primal animism of our species and your highly developed and allegedly superior monotheism - and not to side with any belief, I will refrain from defending anything on those sites.

But I suppose if you're superstitious enough, the statement comes across as advocating demonism. Am I right?

Maybe next I'll explain how devil worship and god worship are the same thing...[/quote]

I confess that I figured you probably didn't read too much into that particular website since it is highly pro "spiritual."
:D:P.

But then again, I wouldn't doubt that you are probably secretly involved in all sorts of bizarre rites and rituals and are a high priest of some sort of pagan sect. Come on...fess up! ;)

RE: Expelled

Krispy Kirk — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:16:51 GMT

OK, in all fairness, I didn't read every single page of every single one of those sites I referenced. Apparently ET, you did!

The quote you're asking about is silly. There's no other word for it. Since my point was to show equivalency between the primal animism of our species and your highly developed and allegedly superior monotheism - and not to side with any belief, I will refrain from defending anything on those sites.

But I suppose if you're superstitious enough, the statement comes across as advocating demonism. Am I right?

Maybe next I'll explain how devil worship and god worship are the same thing...

RE: Expelled

ET — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 15:53:48 GMT

I have a question for you Krispy Kirk. On one of those websites you posted (northernway.org), it states....

[b]What does "contacted" mean?
There are Guardians and Guides -- real entities behind symbols like the Rose and the Cross, the Dove and the Eagle, the East, Water, etc. They communicate with (and through) students of the Occult. They have done so down through the ages. If you are open-minded, yet discreet, and are actively seeking the divine---it will come to you and manifest through you. It may even use you as a tool or a mouthpiece.
[/b]

You posted those websites to prove the point that Christianity is Pagan. What about statements such as the one I just quoted? What do you think of that statement? Do you accept the above statement? If the above quote is not entirely accurate or believable, do you think that all the "facts" they have about Christianity is 100% believable?

RE: Expelled

ET — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 13:24:04 GMT

[quote][b]Unrealityshow (4/5/2008)[/b][hr]I just wanted to say, in my opinion there isn't such a thing as an eastern religion. Taoism, Budism, Shintoism, ect. ect., they're more like philosphys, as they're not revoving around a god, just ideas, thoughts.[/quote]

In one sense, I agree with you. But, if you look into a lot of various philosophies, they contain within them religious applications whether they recognize a God or not. There are atheistic groups with like-minded philosophies who practice religious type rituals and ceremony, not because they believe in God, but because they believe there is a certain powerful effect that takes place when a person is subjected to a ritual or "initiation." This is "religion" whether they recognize a deity or not.

Scripture says in Colossians 2:8
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ."

RE: Expelled

Unrealityshow — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 03:47:52 GMT

I just wanted to say, in my opinion there isn't such a thing as an eastern religion. Taoism, Budism, Shintoism, ect. ect., they're more like philosphys, as they're not revoving around a god, just ideas, thoughts.

RE: Expelled

O-Lugs — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:30:52 GMT

God created everything

Everything is corrupt

Therefore, God is corrupt

RE: Expelled

ET — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:22:47 GMT

Krispy...I also want to mention that there is a lot that I agree with in some of those websites you posted. Christianity did incorporate a lot of pagan customs, symbols and rituals. Which I believe is totally wrong for Christianity to do. That is a main reason why I wouldn't attend most so-called Christian churches today and why I reject a large chunk of what is taught by many "Christian" leaders and teachers.

The Catholic Church has a Pagan Obelisk straight from Egypt in St. Peter's Square at the Vatican. Isn't this a bit odd for a "Christian church?" I consider most Priests and many Pastors of protestant denominations to be Pagan. Remember the comedy with Tom Hanks and Dan Akroyd "Dragnet?" The "Christian Moral Majority" type priest in the movie was actually a member of the secret group called the "Pagans!" Though this is a fiction movie, obviously, I think it was actually quite accurate!

RE: Expelled

ET — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 16:46:34 GMT

[quote][b]Krispy Kirk (4/2/2008)[/b][hr]I'd be a little more careful about hating on paganism there if I were you ET.

Don't you realize that Christianity is 100% pagan in origin? It introduced zero new ideas/concepts/philosophies that didn't already exist in pre-Christian times. And I'm not talking about Judaism either, because it is an amalgam of pre-Judaic pagan, zoroaster,fertility and idol-worshipping cults. It's timeyou stopped thinking you believe in something special or unique. You don't. It isn't. Your Christianity is the same oldmythos/meme humans have been dreaming up and passing around since the dawn of civilization and beyond. It's just packaged differently.

http://www.pocm.info/

http://www.northernway.org/pagandna.html

http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2003/04/is-christianity-based-on-pagan-roots.php

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=63

http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/pagan-symbols.html#amen[/quote]

I don't hate Pagans since I would have to have hated myself and much of my family who practiced a lot of it in the past.

As to those websites, I've been quite aware for a while now of people who take the view that Christianity is a rip off of Paganism. I can understand why they believe this because I admit there are many parallels and similar teachings. BUT! If you look at the timelines in Scripture though, you will find that the bible admits that pagan religions DID exist before Judaism/Christianity. Satan started "religion" first! I know you won't care for this opinion, but, Satan knew God and God's plan before mankind was ever created. Satan wanted to be worshipped right fromt the start and it was he who paralled what God was going to do in his own Babylonian/Luciferian/Man-centered religion. Which is where all this New Age/Occult/Gnostic stuff is really from. Genesis 6 speaks of giants and/or Nephilim who were "men of renown and heroes of old" when angels (sons of God) mated with women. These were the "demi-gods." This is where we got many of the ancient legends and pagan religions from. They actually have an element of truth. This was a time well before Abraham (the first "Jew"), Moses and of course, Christ.

Unfortunately, paganism creeps in a lot into pure Christianity and many people don't realize the difference.If Christianity was truly pagan, as you suggest, then Pagans would love it too. Since there are many gods in Paganism, why are they upset with Christianity? Because in Christianity/Judaism, there is one God who created everything and only He is worthy to be worshipped while all other gods are not gods at all. That's a big difference. Paganism does not pre-date God Himself.

RE: Expelled

O-Lugs — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 18:44:38 GMT

Fo' shizzle!

RE: Expelled

Krispy Kirk — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 18:21:43 GMT

I'd be a little more careful about hating on paganism there if I were you ET.

Don't you realize that Christianity is 100% pagan in origin? It introduced zero new ideas/concepts/philosophies that didn't already exist in pre-Christian times. And I'm not talking about Judaism either, because it is an amalgam of pre-Judaic pagan, zoroaster, fertility and idol-worshipping cults. It's time you stopped thinking you believe in something special or unique. You don't. It isn't. Your Christianity is the same old mythos/meme humans have been dreaming up and passing around since the dawn of civilization and beyond. It's just packaged differently.

http://www.pocm.info/

http://www.northernway.org/pagandna.html

http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2003/04/is-christianity-based-on-pagan-roots.php

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=63

http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/pagan-symbols.html#amen

RE: Expelled

ET — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 17:55:17 GMT

[quote][b]O-Lugs (4/2/2008)[/b][hr]ET,

Yoga in public schools, you say? Damn! I'm old! But, it's all semantics. We used to call it "stretching"...as in "stretching before a big game of dodge ball".:hehe:......................

I'm going to go and stretch now...[/quote]

My wife once practiced yoga and chanted "OM" and did all sorts of Hindu/Buddhist "mental exercises" and never knew that it was from those particular religions. She thought it was just based on "scientific" mental and physical exercises. Well, Yoga in all its various forms is based on Hindu religious beliefs in chakras and the Kundalini "serpent fire" that allegedly exists along the spine and up to the "Third Eye." Yoga means "Union" and when practiced correctly, it will lead to personal "illumination." Yet, many Christians don't seem to know or care that they are doing these pagan activities.

RE: Expelled

ET — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 17:38:14 GMT

[quote][b]Krispy Kirk (4/2/2008)[/b][hr]Wow, you sure are liberal with your definition of "religion" ET. I don't recall ever hearing the phrase "humanistic religion" before. I guess you'd define that as "man's self-worship" then? Strikes me as being an oxymoron on a par with "scientific creationism", "light beer", "tax incentive",and "military intelligence."

But I tend to agree with you about the yoga thing. It doesn't really belong in gym class. Takes too much time away from more important stuff. Like dodgeball.[/quote]

"Man's self-worship" is probably an accurate way of stating it. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law," which you probably recognize from Aleister Crowley/The Beast 666 and other like minded people and occult groups...is what basically is being taught to children nowadays. The Man is God belief is being taught in public schools. These humanistic religious beliefs are purposely being placed on students today and if anyone doubts that, read Marylin Ferguson's New Age book "The Aquarian Conspiracy: Personal and Social Transformation in Our Time." Though she used the word "Conspiracy," she states on page 19 of her book that it does not reflect something negative. But that a conspiracy can be a "conspiracy of love." She uses the terms humanism and humanistic at times to express her own views, while at the same time expressing a strong and pro "spiritual" belief. She devotes a whole chapter on public schools and how they (the New Agers/Aquarian Conspirators) already have put many of their own "Aquarian" educational methods into public schools. This book was originally written in 1980 and the New Age/occult/pagan beliefs thrive so much more now in public schools than before. Many people don't even realize that many of the practices that they are being taught in school originate from pagan and eastern religious thought.

RE: Expelled

O-Lugs — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 15:49:23 GMT

ET,

You're right. I cannot "believe in" science any more than I can believe in religion. There is no "school of thought" that has [u]the[/u] explanation. There is no "right" way...so far. There are only theories.

Yoga in public schools, you say? Damn! I'm old! But, it's all semantics. We used to call it "stretching"...as in "stretching before a big game of dodge ball".:hehe:

Still, everything comes from somewhere else. Take foods as another example of what's offered in public schools. Look at what we feed our American kiddies. Hot dogs? Pizza? FRENCH fries??? With foods like those, we are going to become corrupt! No Christian kids should be allowed to eat secular food. They should only eat the foods mentioned in the Bible!

I'm going to go and stretch now...

RE: Expelled

Krispy Kirk — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 13:39:44 GMT

Wow, you sure are liberal with your definition of "religion" ET. I don't recall ever hearing the phrase "humanistic religion" before. I guess you'd define that as "man's self-worship" then? Strikes me as being an oxymoron on a par with "scientific creationism", "light beer", "tax incentive", and "military intelligence."

But I tend to agree with you about the yoga thing. It doesn't really belong in gym class. Takes too much time away from more important stuff. Like dodgeball.

RE: Expelled

ET — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 16:08:52 GMT

[quote][b]Krispy Kirk (3/31/2008)[/b][hr]ET, I trust you saw the Nova episode on PBS last November entitled Judgment Day: Intelligent Design on Trial. If you missed it, look around for it on the internet, it might be out there.

It was a reenactment of the Tammy Kitzmiller, et al. v. Dover Area School District trial that settled, in a Federal court,once and for all that "intelligent design" is religion. And, in this country, at least for now, we don't tolerate the teaching of religion in our public schools.

It is imperative that you and any potential ID sympathizers understand this legal precendent going into Stein's movie (I won't call it a "documentary" since all it appears to document is Stein's personal feelings about Darwinism.)

O-Lugs is right, Stein doesn't appear to have any truck with Jesus, but knowing his sense of humor, I would at least expect a mention of the Flying Spaghetti Monster![/quote]

Never saw the Nova episode. Maybe I'll check for it in the future. PBS turns me off because often they state as fact many things that are only theories or educated guesses.

I don't mind that intelligent design is not taught in public schools. Personally, I don't expect it or want them to teach it. But, the majority of people believe that a God is responsible for the existence of the universe and many scientists do as well. So, when a public school only teaches the humanistic and atheistic view, then they too are teaching Secular Humanism, which is now regarded as a "religious view." If one believes that evolution is fact, even though some scientists admit that it has never been "proven," then there is still an element of "faith" in believing the theory of evolution. Both sides of the ID controversy takes some kind of faith.

Yoga, which is straight from Hinduism, is often practiced in public schools. And they get away with it simply by stating it is only a physical exercise. They teach all sorts of "relaxation techniques" to children in public schools which are borrowed right out of eastern religions, which they state are simply "mental stress management techniques." Humanistic religion is okay in public schools, which shows a bias against those students who are not among the secular humanistic type.

RE: Expelled

Krispy Kirk — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:56:58 GMT

ET, I trust you saw the Nova episode on PBS last November entitled Judgment Day: Intelligent Design on Trial. If you missed it, look around for it on the internet, it might be out there.

It was a reenactment of the Tammy Kitzmiller, et al. v. Dover Area School District trial that settled, in a Federal court, once and for all that "intelligent design" is religion. And, in this country, at least for now, we don't tolerate the teaching of religion in our public schools.

It is imperative that you and any potential ID sympathizers understand this legal precendent going into Stein's movie (I won't call it a "documentary" since all it appears to document is Stein's personal feelings about Darwinism.)

O-Lugs is right, Stein doesn't appear to have any truck with Jesus, but knowing his sense of humor, I would at least expect a mention of the Flying Spaghetti Monster!

RE: Expelled

O-Lugs — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 12:05:37 GMT

Looks GOOD! I'll watch it for sure! Thanks!

P.S. He didn't mention ONE word about Jesus!

Expelled

ET — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:18:04 GMT

[url=http://www.expelledthemovie.com][/url]

I don't know why the link won't work...but check it out.:w00t: