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| | | Forum Guru
 
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 2/12/2007 9:04 PM
Posts: 51, Visits: 8 |
| Well, it's certainly been a long time since I've been here at Drum Talk. Things sure have died down over the years.
Anyways, I have a few questions (ok, maybe a lot) for those of you that are home-studio savvy. I've recorded a lot of stuff on my current setup, but without the proper equipment... it leaves a lot to be desired, as one could expect.
Now, before I start, I need you all to know I am NOT an expert when it comes to recording equipment, even equipment in general. I'm just a drummer, I've always left the PA detail up to the guitarist.
Now, I'm just looking for a good sound; something clear, good tone, no distortion. I'm not looking for a professional sound, especially considering I don't have to technical experience or the funds for high-end equipment.
To start it off, I'll give you a basic rundown of my current computer system:
AMD 64 3400+
nForce3 mobo
1 GB 3200 DDR3 RAM
550 GB (SATA master, IDE slave)
Audigy2 ZS 7.1
Windows Vista Ultimate x64
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Now, I don't have any concerns about my system being able to handle recording (except for nVidia's shotty driver support for the nForce3...).
Anyways, I've been reading a lot on sites about recording setups, and the different hardware user's prefer. Unfortunately, it seems a little ambiguous at times as to how some of the hardware actually works. I was thinking about running a board that has a firewire output, and then just completely bypassing my audio card and just running it in through a firewire port. But that brings me to my first question, can you record separate tracks simultaneously through a single firewire input? Ideally, namely for the drums, I'd like to run each channel separately through the mixer, pre-eq, run preamps if available, then run it through the computer, each to a different track, then add any gates/eqing/dynamic processing/etc. That way, if I record something, fudge it up on the mixer and not catch it immediately, I won't have to go back and record the track again. I could just alter the individual track on the computer.
Now, I know a lot of this is heavily dependent on the software, and I'm currently using Adobe Audition 2.0. It seems to have everything I need, and I've become relatively proficient with it over time. Anyone have any experience with this software?
Now, moving back to the hardware side of things, this is where I'm the most confused. People have thrown around a lot of different hardware and rack setups that they claim is necessary for quality recordings. What hardware do I need to run a clear sounding track into the computer (vocals come to mind... always distorted on high notes, never loud enough on the quiet parts)? The most common thing I've heard recommended are preamps and gates, but I'd like to know what purpose a preamp actually serves, and if I could just run it through the computer instead of it's hardware alternative.
So basically, I'll try to wrap this up and keep it relatively simple, seeing as how I jumped around a bit too much--what's a good mixer that has firewire output (at least 16 channel), and what rack equipment (i.e., gates, preamps, compressor) do I need? And here's the kicker: I don't want to spend over $1500. Much less would be preferable, but I don't see it happening...
And finally, is it possible to record separate tracks at once on the computer through a single firewire input? If not, I've seen some PCI options that have some XLR and quarter inch inputs, but not nearly enough.
And if I managed to confuse you with a barrage of beginner questions, just let me know what your current set up is with a basic rundown of how you went up setting it up. And some samples of tracks you've recorded would be fantastic
Thanks guys, I know it's pretty cumbersome post, but a little insight would be great.. |
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Supreme Being
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 9/25/2008 2:48 AM
Posts: 701, Visits: 1,266 |
| Hi! I normally stick to the guitar forums, but your thread subject caught my eye!  First, what are all the instruments you'll be wanting to record? For vocals and live drums, what make and model microphones do you have? Your computer system looks great! I run a Creative Audigy2 ZS Platinum Pro, and love it! Do you have the basic model, or the one with the external module with pretty much every audio connection type ever made? Also, did you receive the Steinberg multi-track recording software bundled with your Audigy2 ZS? That would be a good choice to try, if you've got it. A mic preamp would be quite helpful, and an excellent one can be had at an incredible deal of just $30. It's got a built-in limiter, and utilizes a 12AX7 vacuum tube for natural compression and fuller, distortion-free sound. It also supplies the necessary phantom power if you use a condenser mic. Here's a link to the deal, which I've personally made use of: http://www.musician.com/product/ART-Tube-MP-Studio-Mic-Preamp?sku=180581 Have you already picked up a mixer, or is that an item you're still needing? The Behringer UB802 is nice and small, plus very affordable. This also supplies phantom power to your condensor mics. Behringer also has larger mixers available, if that particular model doesn't have enough channels for you. I've never even thought of using a firewire port for recording, as I'd never want to bypass the 24-bit processing power of my Audigy2 ZS. I do have another option for you. Would you like to spend just $600 and not even have to bother using your computer, software, or mixer at all? If this sounds appealing to you, pick up the Boss BR-900CD. I recently grabbed this, and I LOVE it!!! It can record up to 8 tracks, and can store 8 different versions of the 8 different tracks so that you can choose the best ones for mixdown. For inputs, it's got a 1/4" guitar, two XLR mic, a 1/4" mic, and RCA stereo. For output, it's got 1/4" headphone, USB out, MIDI out, RCA stereo out, and optical out. It can record straight to compact flash and crank out professional-sounding CDs. It's also got a drum machine, a full guitar processor, a full bass processor, and a full vocal processor with automatic pitch correction. Actually, watching the online demo videos of it might be more helpful: http://www.rolandus.com/Multimedia/Flash/br900cd/index.html Boss isn't paying me a single cent for this endorsement.  Best deal I've found on this product is here: http://www.rmcaudio.com/menu/rec-frame.htm Then you get http://www.zzounds.com/ to beat that price. I think I ended up grabbing mine for $525 after a Boss rebate promotion and a PriceGrabber review bonus... Anyway, I hope that some of this is helpful.
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McSpadden M-12W, SH-12CRs, SH-12KKc
Custom LR Baggs Piezo Bridge Pickup on SH-12KKc
LR Baggs Para Acoustic DI Preamp
DigiTech & Boss Effects, Planet Waves Cables and Picks, D'Addario Strings
SWR Super Redhead 450w Combo Amp with SWR Goliath Jr. III Extension Cab
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| | | Forum Guru
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 2/12/2007 9:04 PM
Posts: 51, Visits: 8 |
| Hey Dulcimerist,
We'll be recording the basic instruments, electric/acoustic guitar (we may be able to get away with running acoustic direct), drums, and bass.
I've been using predominantly SM57's for virtually everything, excluding the bass drum, which I'm using a Beta52. Currently we are using SM58's for vocals.
As for the soundcard, it's the 7.1 with the firewire port. I never thought about it before, but I wonder if the 1394 port is both input/output. One reason I haven't dismissed using the card instead of firewire yet is that it's full duplex, and may have less latency than firewire. Regardless, I have recorded with it on several occasions and it does a good job with sampling. I probably just need to use better equipment to see what it's capable of really doing.
I'll have to definitely look into the mixer--we had a Behringer at one point, does the job for a little less money.
About the recorder, I have had a little experience with them. A buddy of mine had one (can't recall what at the moment), and he got decent results from it. I just like the flexibility and the amount of options the computer adds.
I've got a few other questions, though. Every time we record guitar tracks, they always some ungodly flat, and have absolutely no drive. Clean, distorted, anything, there is just no push. I've EQ'ed it to hell, and it's just like there's something missing. Which is also true for bass, I just can't much low end presence. |
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Supreme Being
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 9/25/2008 2:48 AM
Posts: 701, Visits: 1,266 |
| | Hey keck! Have you got a built-in pickup on your acoustic? If so, I highly recommend the L.R. Baggs Para Acoustic D.I. to run with it. That's got 5-band EQ, volume & gain controls, and has both 1/4" and XLR out. That runs about $150, but I've found that it's worth it for acoustic stringed instruments. Those Shure mics are all quite good! Those are all dynamic mics as well, so you won't have to worry about phantom power at all. (I want to try out one of those Beta 52s with my digeridoo!) 1394 ports should be both input/output, as they sort of behave like USB. For normal audio inputs on your sound card, are you pretty much limited to 1/8" miniplug? If so, I highly recommend grabbing one of the models with the external input module, or at least the one with the drivebay input module. Recently a retailer was offering the latter in an Audigy2 ZS for $50 after rebates. The Boss recorder only allows two simultaneous tracks to be recorded, combining up to eight total; so it's probably not what you're looking for. I do use mine as an audio interface with my computer, though; going in through the optical port of the sound card's external module. The recorder adds lots of versatility, and doesn't get nailed by computer crashes; which I like a lot. However, you'll want one of the Behringer mixers for your particular application of recording an entire band. That flat guitar issue sounds frustrating. Is this happening with the acoustic guitar with the mic, or only the guitars plugged in with pickups? How are you connecting your guitars to the recording equipment, and are they using any external effects processors/stompboxes; and if so, which ones? I assume that you're running compression of some kind to help a bit? For best results, have the guitars running through their normal amplifiers, using the "record out" jack to travel to your mixer/computer. Effects should be run ideally in the effects loop of the amp, but would be fine between the guitar and amp. Having them between the amp and mixer/computer wouldn't be good, unless you're using a low-impedance (line level) input (such as dual RCA to capture the stereo effect of a processor, which works great!. Other options to fix the flat sound could be using a tube preamp, or one of these products: (One of those BBE Sonic Maximizers might be best.)
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/effectsdescr.shtml#booster
http://www.bbesound.com/products/maxim/maxim.asp Hopefully some of this is helpful. Please add more info on your guitar gear, in case that might help narrow down the flat problem.
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McSpadden M-12W, SH-12CRs, SH-12KKc
Custom LR Baggs Piezo Bridge Pickup on SH-12KKc
LR Baggs Para Acoustic DI Preamp
DigiTech & Boss Effects, Planet Waves Cables and Picks, D'Addario Strings
SWR Super Redhead 450w Combo Amp with SWR Goliath Jr. III Extension Cab
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| | | Supreme Being
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 10/20/2008 10:16 AM
Posts: 189, Visits: 83 |
| | My simple system that produces good results. 1. M-Audio Delta 44 sound card that is a 4 in 4 out, 1/4 plug breakout box. 2. A Samson compact 12 channel mixer that I use as the interface between the mics/instruments and the delta 44. It is great when the instrument amps have dedicated outputs. This saves on mics and space. I use the Sampson L/R main and aux outputs to record several tracks at once. 3. My computer is a bargin basement Compac that has more than enough capability to record 96 bit multi track. 4. My recording software is Cakewalk version II, solid and versatile. 5. My CD burning and manipulating software is a Sony product which allows additional editing and modification. 6. Most of my vocal/instrument mics are Samson Q-2's, very similar to the the SM-57. 7. My kick is a Samson Q-Kick. Total investment of less than $900, and I can use most of the components for other applications. |
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Supreme Being
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 9/25/2008 2:48 AM
Posts: 701, Visits: 1,266 |
| | In digging around, I found that Alesis makes a good mixer with firewire output to your computer. They also make a good USB2 mixer. Both have excellent, built-in 24-bit processing; so bypassing your sound card is fine. Take your pick in the number of channels you need. Here are links to the smaller models: http://www.alesis.com/product.php?id=40 http://www.alesis.com/product.php?id=107 They come bundled with Steinberg Cubase LE, which is a great program. The mixers are loaded with studio-quality effects, and run about $250. Alesis currently has a $50 rebate offer on the Firewire model, although the USB2 model is a much better interface. This has been the best-price retailer for Alesis products: http://www.rmcaudio.com/
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McSpadden M-12W, SH-12CRs, SH-12KKc
Custom LR Baggs Piezo Bridge Pickup on SH-12KKc
LR Baggs Para Acoustic DI Preamp
DigiTech & Boss Effects, Planet Waves Cables and Picks, D'Addario Strings
SWR Super Redhead 450w Combo Amp with SWR Goliath Jr. III Extension Cab
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