Music used as religious/political propaganda

Krispy Kirk (9/6/2008)

"Can't argue with Slayer? So, I guess that means you believe in Satan too since Slayer openly promotes him?"

Yeeeeeeaaaaaaahhhh. Like I said: it's an act. I can't argue with Ozzy, Kiss, Marilyn Manson,or Alice Cooper either. Freak show rock music makes lots of dough. But if any of these shrewd businessmen are "promoting" anything it is usually "buy my records!"

"99% of Christians are likely to be repulsed by that so-called Jesus Camp place. I wouldn't doubt that behind the scenes there are atheists or Satanists running the place and pretending to be Christians and distorting Christianity in any way they can to make it appear as ridiculous as possible. The Bible warns against people who preach "another Jesus" other then the one revealed in Scripture and their "Jesus" is definitely not the one found in scripture."

Back to your old tricks huh ET?How come any time somebody pokes a finger in the eye of religionyou instantly distance yourself by claiming that that's not "your Jesus"? Reading all your similarly evasive posts over the years leads me to believe you are a Church of One and nobody else believes exactly what you believe. Well, I know mybible andthat just ain't biblical. I am certain that Jesus Camp is not run by atheists (becauseatheists already have their own: www.campinquiry.org) or "Satanists" (they have Bohemian Grove, college fraternities, Burning Man, oh yeah...and Slayer concerts!)

But let's go with your logic for a minute. Megachurches (ala Joel Osteen's, T. D. Jakes', et al) that teach that trendy "Prosperity Gospel" must be run by either atheists or Satanists too. It's kind of obvious, don't you think?

And that dangerous cult of Evangelical Zionism led by the likes of John Hagee? Satan-worshipping atheists all. Obviously.

Continue on in this vein, and you uncover a whole lot of crypto-atheists and crypto-sataniststhat havenothing better to do with their time than imitate Christianity.

"Since there is no God, there is no intelligent design. Since there is no intelligent design, there is no purpose to existence. If there is no purpose for existence, then everyone and all things have no meaning or purpose and there is no right or wrong/good or bad since life itself and the universe are accidents of chance. Since everything exists by chance, then suffering is also meaningless and purposeless."

This statement is evidence of unclear thinking. You've made several significant logical errors but that always happens whenever somebody who's undergone mental programming attempts to put words in the mouth of the atheist. No God? No problem. No intelligent design? Looking around, Itend to agree - the "hand of God" is easily explained by natural (and often sloppy) biological phenomena. But the jump from that to "no purpose for existence" is fallacious. Design doesn't necessarily imply purpose.If it is biological "purpose" you mean (which I doubt) then OK. Most of nature seems pretty well "designed" for the "purposes" of surviving and reproducing.

But that's not what you meant. Moral purpose has littleto do with biology. Ours has evolved to help us develop civilization, cultureand other survival skills. In this context, "right or wrong/good or bad" become functions of what behavior best allows us to successfully survive and reproduce in groups. Unfortunately (for the less adaptable), this surviving has also meant dominating and controlling humans via groups. That's where the meme of religion comes in. What you see as some grand plan behind the universe is in fact a mental virus that has self-replicated down through the generations and given its hosts slightly improved odds of survival, but only when they operate in collectives. Read Dennett for more.

So you've got this tyranny of faith, this mental virus, this "purpose" that colors and distorts everything you see. Does that help you as an individual? Ayn Rand would say it doesn't. I prefer to see it as a dead end. You can drink the cool aid at Jonestown, recline fully clothed at Heaven's Gate, or man the barricades with David Koresh in Waco...or you could just sit and pray quietly while you wait for the "end times". It's all the same. Without death, religion offers no payoff.

And this is what I renounce as an atheist. Not faith, purpose, design, or any other attractive construct. I renounce the obsession that your religion has with death. Without the death of Christ, you have no salvation. Sacrifice, burnt offering, bloodatonement - they are all the same: gifts offered to appease a vengeful, angry, jealous, vindictive Old Testament god. The corruptible flesh. Believe or die. Hurry up Jesus and destroy thissinful world. It gets pretty sick when you stop and think about it. Life is wasted on those who would rather have death.

Living (which is my "purpose" that I renew with every breath) is really of no use to a Christian. Or to a Hindu. Or a Muslim. Even Buddhists (for all their charms) devalue existence as merely a dreary means to an end. All religion demands that you focus on what comes after life. The result is a poisoning (to use Hitchens' word) of everything. You may not see it, but then again, you're not looking!